More than 80 people killed in campaign that law-of-war experts have labeled extrajudicial murder
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth reportedly gave a verbal order to leave no survivors behind as Donald Trump’s administration launched the first of more than a dozen attacks on alleged drug-running boats that have killed more than 80 people over the last three months.
On September 2, U.S. military personnel fired a missile striking a vessel in the Caribbean that carried 11 people accused of trafficking drugs into the United States.
When two survivors emerged from the wreckage, a Special Operations commander overseeing the attack ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions to “kill everybody,” according to The Washington Post, citing officials with direct knowledge of the operation.
If they didn’t kill everyone, it’s possible one of them would be able to prove there were no drugs and this is just racism…
It probably was drugs - but that is not the point. It’s wildly unethical and a violation of many rules of war to simply kill people like they are doing.
We don’t summarily execute people at the president’s say.
Seriously. Even domestically they aren’t allowed to just waltz into a drugden and open fire.
I mean, they still do but they are least have the claim that they fired in self defence. Not so much when you do it with drone strikes and missiles.
We don’t summarily execute people at the president’s say.
Yeah… no.
Sorry, I was using “parent telling a child ‘we don’t hit people’ voice”.
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Ah yes, who could forget that the US is at war with Venezuela
We don’t summarily execute people at the president’s say.
you actually do
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It probably was drugs
Based on what do you say it was PROBABLY drugs?
We don’t summarily execute people at the president’s say.
What do you think a war is? We already set the precedent of being able to declare war on non-state actors and the War Powers act gives him the authority to start shooting without Congressional approval. Which means an American President can legally, (to the US), tell the military they need to go kill cocaine farmers until Congress passes a bill to stop him. And the President can veto that bill. Meaning the legal threshold for Congress to stop the military from killing foreigners in foreign places is the same threshold as impeaching the President.
The War Powers resolution worked as long as it did because it was actually one of many gentleman’s agreements that are now defunct.
Akxually…
If anybody is still under the impression that someone somewhere in the chain of command might refuse illegal orders, this tells you everything you need to know
Unfortunately the US doesn’t consider that one to be an illegal order. It is heartless, and unnecessary. But ever since the advent of airpower the US has maintained that planes, helicopters, and drones are not required to accept surrender because it is impractical to impossible in any given situation. So the standard is usually to keep firing. Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom had notable exceptions with mass surrender instructions dropped beforehand. And again, I know that’s not reassuring. But this is why politics isn’t supposed to be a team game. This is the level of power we are making decisions on. For other things that are completely legal but most people don’t realize; heavy machineguns can absolutely be used to target individual soldiers; Flamethrowers are still 100 percent legal against military targets; You can be shot after your surrender is accepted, (I’ll expand below); You will be shot if you do not or cannot actively surrender; and Nobody respects the rule against shooting medics and medevacs.
To expand on the most inflammatory one, the only time you are “safe” is while you are in custody. Modern combat operations move very fast and surrendering people are often left in place after their weapons are removed/destroyed. If they don’t actively surrender again to follow on forces then they are legal targets because we haven’t developed psychic powers yet. This especially matters with surrendered wounded who may not be in a condition to surrender again. Shooting bodies as you advance is legal and expected in a war. You just aren’t allowed to personally go back and shoot someone again without them presenting a new threat. With that information in mind you should also know the US military and any professional military sends multiple waves across a battlefield. It is incredibly lethal, by design.
I say all this not to call you out but to highlight that war is a giant bag of dicks that most people outside the military are still naïve about.
The other pressing thing here is this is an order to fire on a declared enemy, outside our border. Meaning the president signed a sheet of paper declaring them to be the enemy, Congress hasn’t thrown a flag, and they are beyond the jurisdiction of law enforcement. That is very clear cut to the military. If you change any one of those 3 parameters then things go to gray zone or illegal very quickly. Someone asked me some months ago while Trump was vomiting about Greenland if the military would obey that order versus an order to hunt down and kill Americans inside America. And the answer is Greenland would be fucked but those Americans are pretty safe from the military. They are not however safe from anonymous DOJ task forces and DHS.
Thanks for the clarification, sadly
and they’ll do similar mental gymnastics forever…
the military won’t save you Americans
What would even be an illegal order?
Blowing up the boat in the first place.
To use force against Americans inside America without martial law, an act of Congress, or an extenuating circumstance like self defense.
Trump really pushed the envelope by ordering troops to accompany ICE raids under the authorization to guard federal property. But they still couldn’t do anything but defend themselves technically. It’s just that he effectively tied their self defense to the ICE agents defense. I’m pretty sure the courts knocked that one back and the military pulled back though. Which is why they’ve gone so hard with Border Patrol, ICE, and any volunteers from within DHS/DOJ that have badges.
To use force against Americans inside America without martial law, an act of Congress, or an extenuating circumstance like self defense.
so nothing because the idiot king can declare martial law with no justification just as he has broken rules or laws over 200 times in less than a year
Deploying regular military inside the US is illegal.
So is running for president as a felon, yet here we are.
This has not been adjudicated by anyone. You can say “the US doesn’t consider it to be an illegal order”. Maybe there is some JAG letter somewhere that says helicopters are not required to accept surrender. But there is nothing that precludes trying everyone involved for war crimes.
Having Trump as king precludes trying any of his goons for anything.
Then we have to stop that, don’t we.
Stop rolling over in advance.
Tell that to your rulers lmao
There was the one high profile commander who stepped down du to this. Wish more would follow suit since it’s technically illegal for all involved to disobey orders unless they all do so collectively.
There’s a big difference between this and shooting at unarmed American citizens who are legally exercising their 1st Amendment Rights.
What’s the difference? Nationality? Skin color?
Yes. If Americans haven’t proved they’re generally racist and Nationalistic, I don’t know what else it would take.
It sounds like you’re trying to make a gotcha, but it’s quite fair to say a member of the military who murders Venezuelans at whim may still balk if ordered to kill white American.
The “I was just following orders” defense is gonna be used a loooot in the future
That’s very cute of you to think that they will face consequences.
When? You expecting an election in the future?
Does the Hague not investigate war crimes?
The U.S. doesn’t recognize the ICC and sanctions its officials if they investigate war crimes by the U.S. or its allies.
We briefly ratified the Rome Statute in 2000 but pulled out shortly after invading Afghanistan and shortly before invading Iraq.
No, the US would invade the Netherlands if they tried to investigate.
Only for political opponents of west.
I’m a world where laws mattered those words would haunt him all the way to the gallows.
11 people? There were 11 people on the boat? There’s no fucking way that was a drug smuggling boat. 11 people means at least nine people’s worth of weight that can’t be dedicated to drugs.
it was not proven those boats were
notcarrying drugs nor have fuel capacity to reach the US coasts. They most likely killed fisher boats:https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/evidence-vessels-venezuela-us-drug-trafficking-e51d01
it was proven those boats were not carrying drugs
Was it? Because I can’t find any reliable source corroborating that
the better description to say that it was not proven they were carrying drugs, and they were most likely fisher boats.
that’s why they said legally they were proven not guilty of carrying drugs:
this website does good job providing sources to all claims:
https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/evidence-vessels-venezuela-us-drug-trafficking-e51d01
Won’t be the last time he issues that command
“Sir, what should we do this Martin Luther King day?”
Dont worry everyone. Republicans will praise the pedophile and friends through tweets. The Democrats will post a mildly worded tweet. No one will actually do anything.
It’s not a warcrime if you’ve never formally declared war points finger at temple.
What’s the conversion rate on Venezuelans to Austrian Archdukes?
America: ill do it again!
It is literally a crime against humanity to declare no quarter be given.
Edit: US Code literally prescribes death for war crimes when that crime results in death: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title18-section2441&num=0&edition=prelim
Our ancestors didn’t defy kings, battle their own wayward countrymen, charge trenches, and rush fortified beaches headlong into the jaws of death. . .
. . .for. This. Whatever the disgraceful hell this is.
About now, every real patriot for what’s good about this country should feel a profound and gnawing agony at every passing day these monsters aren’t held to account and rendered incapable of further harm to humanity, whatever form that would take.
We need to make it loud and clear that if “the other team” in places of power doesn’t use every single tool at their disposal to end this threat IMMEDIATELY, they are complicit fools and will be held accountable as accomplices to whatever untold horrors would await us, should we refuse to hold the line.
As I understand, not a single one of these boats were even remotely capable of making it to America to begin with. Not without refueling, which isn’t likely that we’re set up for it.
This was all a coordinated targeted mass murder right in front of our faces and they need to be tried and punished for every one.
every American is going to hell for the murders of our elected officials are committing . i hope the deaths that are happening is not tolerated by god if he really exists.
