• the_strange@feddit.orgEnglish
        47·
        6 days ago

        The certificate for manjaro.org was renewed only a few hours ago. Given Manjaros track record, they probably let the cert expire (again) and fixed it since the original screenshot was taken.

        • Ghoelian@piefed.socialEnglish
          12·
          5 days ago

          The screenshot seems to be taken at 1:50 utc, and the new certificate was valid from 00:18 utc. It is possible though that they just.enrolled the cert too late.

  • rozodru@piefed.worldEnglish
    123·
    6 days ago

    some iconic duos in the Linux community: Arch and AUR malware, Ubuntu and bad updates, NixOS and community/team members leaving, Manjaro and failing to renew its cert.

    • not_IO@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
      411·
      5 days ago

      Welcome to Linux, do you want the BenevolentDictatorOS, WeaponsManifaturerOS, MalwareOS or Debian?

      • AVincentInSpace@pawb.socialEnglish
        2·
        3 days ago

        WeaponsManufacturerOS is Nix, obviously (they’ve since dropped Anduril as a sponsor but we’re never going to let them live it down), MalwareOS I’m guessing is Arch, but what’s BenevolentDictatorOS?

    • Dran@lemmy.world
      21·
      5 days ago

      Ubuntu and bad updates

      This is the only drama in your list I’m not familiar with already. What/when did they last break?

      • SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zipEnglish
        8·
        5 days ago

        Recently, the nvidia-dkms driver updates wouldn’t build for 5.x series kernels, so if you hadn’t cleaned up old kernels, the update bombed out before updating the initrd filesystem, the system couldn’t boot without intervention. Thankfully, I noticed before trying to reboot my work desktop, and the solution was “apt autoremove && apt upgrade”.

        But the install media for my desktop at home was 18.04, and it’s running 26.04 now. It has an AMD GPU, so it hasn’t had update problems.

        • kungen@feddit.nu
          1·
          4 days ago

          If your playbooks don’t include an autoremove, you’re doing it wrong!

          Or rather, lessons learned from when the default /boot partition was only like 100 MB.

        • Auth@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4·
          4 days ago

          Its intended behavior from Debian team. because they ships a version of the software at the time and only backport security patches. So if the version they ship has bugs then those bugs stay for years. This generates quite a bit of noise for upstream projects but it is what it is.

    • Ann Archy@lemmy.world
      12·
      5 days ago

      BINGO!

      In fact I got a full 5x5 card of bingo because I wrote “Manjaro doesn’t renew its cert” in all of the boxes.

  • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    84·
    6 days ago

    The funniest thing about this is that it needs a single Bash script and a cronjob to solve (unless they got a REALLY bad hoster).

    That bash script probably exists a bazillion times already… so even an LLM could spit it out for them.

    Their organisational structure must be abhorrent for nobody to feel even remotely responsible for this.

    • loutr@sh.itjust.works
      56·
      6 days ago

      Most web server have ACME support built-in nowadays, setup is a matter of minutes, no scripting required. This has been a solved problem for years, any sysadmin who can’t handle this basic task has no business running public-facing servers.

    • Onlytanner@lemmy.world
      1·
      4 days ago

      Same here. I mean, Pop OS was technically my first, but I only used that for like 2 weeks and then switched to Manjaro.

  • renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.netEnglish
    311·
    5 days ago

    This is literally why I stopped using Manjaro.

    I’ve botched 2 Manjaro installs just doing a pacman -Syu while their certs were expired and I ended up with an incomplete upgrade.

    Never once had this issue with EndeavorOS.

    • StarDreamer@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      4·
      5 days ago

      Doesn’t happen with Antergos either.

      I mean, I’ve gotten a NXDomain error ever since they shut down, but at least it’s not a certificate expiry!

    • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
      42·
      4 days ago

      Look, I don’t want to call you a liar… so let’s say maybe you meant to say pamac or got things wrong.

      Because:

      1. That’s not how pacman works. If it hits a mirror with expired certs it just outputs a warning and uses another mirror.
      2. On a fresh install Manjaro will compile an optical subset of mirrors for you based on location and response time. Those mirrors are spread around the world on different domains. It’s very unlikely that your list would include ONLY mirrors.manjaro.org and mirrors2.manjaro.org.
      3. But even if it did, and let’s say for the sake of argument there is a bug in pacman AND you got those mirrors… those two hosts are on a different certificate from manjaro.org (the website), are CNAME’d to .rsc.cdn77.org hosts, get renewed automatically separately from the website cert, and have never been allowed to lapse afaik.
      • renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.netEnglish
        5·
        4 days ago

        Maybe it wasn’t due to certs, but it still happened. That was enough for me to switch distros. I was much less experienced with Linux back then, so I wasn’t able to figure out how to get it working again.

        So far I’ve daily-driven EndeavorOS, Mint, PopOS, and Kubuntu. None of them have broken themselves with an apt or pacman upgrade.

    • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
      12·
      4 days ago

      Why isn’t this an automated processs for them?

      Because manjaro.org is controlled personally by Phil, the CEO of the company, who’s paranoid about letting anybody else handle it. And also can’t figure out how to renew automatically, apparently. People have to remind him on Discord. 🤦

      Everything else *.manjaro.org (forums, mirrors etc.) is handled by different people and have never expired afaik.

      It’s literally just the main webpage that has this problem, everything else about the distro is never impacted.

    • Ann Archy@lemmy.world
      14·
      5 days ago

      Why isn’t it for everyone? How often I see this with, I mean, major actors is head shakingly baffling.

      • StarDreamer@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        16·
        5 days ago

        This came up last time the cert expired iirc.

        Tl;dr one of the founders is holding up the infra not allowing any change. According to someone who worked on Manjaro, it was trivially easy to get this fixed, but that single person simply wouldn’t approve it. Last I checked they sent the founder an ultimatum: either hand over the project or see the staff walk. I suppose the staff walked.

  • esc@piefed.socialEnglish
    39·
    6 days ago

    A little stability and consistency in the world, manjaro always delivers when it comes to this.

    • muhyb@programming.dev
      17·
      6 days ago

      Well, Manjaro popped up when a lot of people cannot install Arch on their own. Same thing with Ubuntu and Debian. Once a userbase formed, people follow suit I guess.

      • octobob@lemmy.ml
        11·
        6 days ago

        I mean they have their own repos and take a position of “hardened updates” that are two weeks older than the bleeding edge ones of Arch. I used it briefly out of curiosity a couple years ago. It seemed generally fine, although I seem to remember having issues with some AUR stuff. That’s kinda to be expected and could even just be general fuckery on the part of the package maintainers, not manjaro. It could also be on manjaro’s fault lol.

        I’ve just stuck to Arch since then. Garuda and endeavour OS are both cool but I don’t feel like I’m gaining much by using either. And Garuda includes a bunch of packages that I don’t even want.

        I’m more interested in what manjaro can do in the mobile phone sphere. If they can build something viable yet fun to tinker with in the next few years that has a rolling release schedule, it could make for a cool Linux phone. Ubuntu touch is probably the more stable choice tbh, but that’s the beauty of Linux.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
          12·
          5 days ago

          Manjaro was more unstable than Arch ever was, for me.

          My experience was:

          • They would mess with Arch packages and muck things up.

          • It relied on AUR some, which also messed things up.

          • 3rd party repos or AUR didn’t work, as its not in sync with upstream arch.

          • …Holding back packages didn’t fix anything anyway. It just delayed fixes. I found myself trying to install upstream Arch packages.

          It turns out Arch Linux is more tested and “held back” than people give it credit for. There’s little to gain from forking like that, instead of just contributing to upstream arch testing.

          Not to mention the cert thing. Manjaro really did let certs expire many times. When I was new to linux, that took me forever to figure out.

          • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
            2·
            4 days ago

            I found myself trying to install upstream Arch packages.

            You realize that’s how you broke, right? It’s like installing Debian packages on Ubuntu.

            It relied on AUR some, which also messed things up.

            How does it rely on AUR?

            3rd party repos or AUR didn’t work, as its not in sync with upstream arch.

            What 3rd party repos?

            AUR works perfectly fine… when it works. AUR is a mess of its own. It’s chock full of malware as we speak and it’s not accepted as a reference on Arch or any other Arch-based distro. Saying an Arch distro “doesn’t work with AUR” is completely irrelevant at the best of times.

            Not to mention the cert thing. Manjaro really did let certs expire many times. When I was new to linux, that took me forever to figure out.

            Did you spend a lot of time reading the webpage, or?.. Because that’s the only cert that expires, the mirros and the forums never did. What exactly were you figuring out?

            • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
              1·
              4 days ago

              Whoa nellie.

              This was many years ago, when I didnt know much about linux, and yes many lessons were learned. Though I distinctly remember instances where I couldnt update Manjaro packages because of expired certs.

              To clarify some points:

              • On packages/AUR, I was desperate, because upstream Arch had some critical fixes that werent shipped to Manjaro yet. Clearly this didnt work out well.

              • AUR specifically breaks with Manjaro because AUR targets upstream arch as a base. When a dependant Arch package updates, the AUR package immediately updates to that new dependecy if its being maintained. But since Manjaro delays the upstream updates, this AUR package will break if its updated.

              • Yes, I know AUR is filled with malware now.

              • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
                2·
                4 days ago

                AUR specifically breaks with Manjaro because AUR targets upstream arch as a base. When a dependant Arch package updates, the AUR package immediately updates to that new dependecy if its being maintained. But since Manjaro delays the upstream updates, this AUR package will break if its updated.

                Again, using the AUR as the standard for evaluating any Arch-based distro is really not cool.

                Leaving that aside, the exact thing you’ve mentioned can happen on vanilla Arch, if the AUR package you are trying to install is based on Arch packages that you haven’t received yet. So you’d have to upgrade your system every time you’re trying to update or install an AUR package to be sure.

                since Manjaro delays the upstream updates, this AUR package will break if its updated.

                It won’t break, it will either succeed compiling or not with the older packages. If it succeeds, no harm done. If it doesn’t, you still have the previous version.

                The unlikely corner case is that the new AUR package version relies on new API/features that only exist in newly released Arch packages and you absolutely must have the latest version right now. But then you’re using the wrong distro for that.

                I was desperate, because upstream Arch had some critical fixes that werent shipped to Manjaro yet.

                Manjaro ships critical updates out of band, without waiting for regular batch updates.

        • muhyb@programming.dev
          6·
          6 days ago

          It was a selling point for Manjaro at some point but people really shouldn’t use AUR with it. That’s just an invitation to a disaster. I think Manjaro is stable if you don’t mix it with AUR. Used it for 6 years and the worst I remember was their Nvidia cataclysm, mostly it was fine.

          Not sure if I would want to use cutting edge on mobile though. I tried PostmarketOS and Ubuntu Touch a couple years ago and Ubuntu Touch was actually daily drivable-ish. Really loved SXMO too, it’s a way different mobile experience.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
      14·
      5 days ago

      It was part of my linux journey long ago, and TBH I bet many still run into in from historical recommendations and popularity.

      But I think CachyOS is taking over their “preconfigured arch with the most SEO” spot.

    • Frank Exchange of Views@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      21·
      6 days ago

      Honestly, I installed it on my 2nd laptop and workstation because I really wanted the AUR, but got tired of Arch unstable update process 15 years ago and left Linux for personal use for MacOS. It still has everything I want on my main laptop, home brew and a terminal with tmux.

      It just works and I just couldn’t be arsed reinstalling, but yeah, if I would, I would just use Arch again now.

      • toddestan@lemmy.world
        1·
        5 days ago

        I’m also in the club of having a couple of Manjaro installs that now date back a few years to when it was still cool.

        Honestly as a distro it works pretty well and my complaints are few. If I had to reinstall I’d take a closer look at CachyOS, EndeavourOS, or even just Arch, but I can’t really be bothered to replace something that’s working just fine so I’ll stick with it for now.

    • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
      22·
      4 days ago

      The website cert is the one that expires. It doesn’t impact anything else about the distro. The package mirrors are on different hosts (and certs). It’s a good distro, wish they’d sort out the kerfuffle with the founder (who’s the one holding them back).